School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

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School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Antlion » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:57 pm

For hunting purposes, for broadheads, which vanes are best? Blazer vanes 2", or the 4" duravanes? Any advice on this?
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Mad Max » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:07 pm

Hi Antlion, in my experience 4" vanes will work best with fixed blade bh's while you should be able to use mechanicals with 2" blazers.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Philip Roets » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:18 pm

2" Blazers are very good and I shoot out to 60m with 2blade broadheads with it. But by far te best is a 4" or 5" feather. No plastic vane can come close to feathers when shooting broadheads.


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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby MrBallistic » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:35 am

The length of the vane is personal preference. Its all about the "steering" capability of the vane and how it makes the arrow fly.
Getting correct flight is not only about the size of the vane but also the angle it is fletched at and where it is positioned on the arrow.
Using the 2 examples given they will work about the same. Although the 4" will have superior surface area as it is longer the Blazer has a higher vane profile so although shorter gives about the same about of control.

Getting back to the points I made earlier:
There is height vs length. Be aware the height may cause vane contact with rest or riser depending on set up and arrow speed.
The greater the angle of the fletch up to say 3°,the more spin will be generated on the arrow which theoretically should help correct the arrow faster (the reason archers shooting indoor using 4-5" vanes with max helical). It does however have its disadvantages as the air flowing over the vanes makes noise (not good for a hunting arrow).
The position of the fletches on the arrow will have a huge bearing on how it "steers" the arrow. The further back the greater the correction effect. One obviously cant go all the way to the back as there will now be face contact which will cause form and shooting problems.

Personally my hunting arrows are setup with Blazers, I just like their profile. Mine are setup between 1/2 - 3/4" from the back of the carbon and I shoot them at about 1° helical. minimizes sound but still gives me good balance on effect.

Philip feathers are far superior in weight as well as how affectively they work. The downfall however is their reaction to water or moisture and what effect this has on how the arrow shoots. So the arrow on a cold chilly dew filled morning will shoot considerably different to an afternoon shot after hotter noon temperatures.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby VdW » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:43 am

I am also a Blazer van, I shoot Slick Tricks, Helix, Viper Tricks, GK and then mechanicals
with Blazers with no need to change my sights, oh yes and even field points!!
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Thunderhead » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:25 am

I believe in stabilizing the arrow as quick as possible so I recommend at least a 4 inch vane. You can get broadheads to fly straight with a small vane in perfect conditions. But hunting is not a controlled situation you often shoot in a uncomfortable position which makes you torque the bow which will effect arrow flight. Shooting over 270fps with a broadhead makes the arrow more critical to any mistake you make.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Bow Joe » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:45 am

It is a personal choice. I have seen guys hunt with blazers and fixed blade broadheads with a lot of success, but I am also of the opinion that blazers are for mechanicals and 4 inch vanes are for fixed blade broadheads, especially for the guys chasing speed. Like Thunderhead said, over 270-280fps you start to struggle to tune broadheads if you have shorter vanes like the blazers.

I personally believe that an arrow should correct itself as soon as possible after it leaves the bow to ensure perfect flight. To do that you want drag at the end of your arrow. I use to shoot three 4 inch vanes and had a stint where I went to four AAE Max Hunters, so I didn't have to look down when I was nocking an arrow while walking and stalking, but I had vane contact. Now I am using four 4 inch VaneTecs with a 2 degree helical. I might have a lot of drag, but it works for me and my long arrows.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Bernhardt » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:59 am

As said it differs from person to person. I tested it on my setup a few years ago and I could not get the same grouping with blasers as I could with 4.5 inch vanes. But I know of guys that swear by Blazers.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Antlion » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:38 pm

Thanks for all the replies. With regards to the fletching jig, anybody has input on the plastic Grayling models? Are the E-Z fletch jigs available in South Africa?
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby MrBallistic » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:46 pm

Ok I shoot mechanicals so I don't have tuning issues but my Blazers have my 312fps arrows shooting like a laser.

I also use a Grayling jig and is works as well as a Bitzenberger. Only fallback is the plastic jaws which can get gummed up with glue deposit or if there is excessive glue can glue the jaw to the vane. What I do is cut and fold cooking foil over the jaws. If it gets really gummed up I simply replace. At least the jaws stay good and the foil normally doesn't get stuck.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby VdW » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:24 pm

Great idea!! Thanks - will get some foil around mine as well. (To stick those little useless
Blazers onto my arrows ...... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: )
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Antlion » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Fletched my first few arrows using the grayling jig. After a first few dry attempts, it really is simple. I don't know why I didn't start earlier. Need to buy the correct glue though, I was told the Gorilla glue works very well.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby MrBallistic » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:09 am

There are several glues that work extremely well and all for their own reasons.
The super glues or instant adhesives have the advantage of quick gluing but this is where sufficient but not excessive glue needs to be applied.
Contact adhesive also works but obviously has a long drying time. Its advantage is the fact that it is pliable.

Personally I think a pliable instant adhesive is best and this is where a gel works extremely well.
I have taken to using Q-bond but the one from the kit for fixing plastics. It is very thin, glues very quickly and is pliable. Once all my arrows are fletched I then apply glue with a toothpick to the front and back tips of each fletch to prevent it pulling if it goes through or deep enough into a butt.
Bernhardt has posted an alternative on this forum using shrink sleeving to prevent the fletch being ripped off.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Guardian » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:27 pm

Mr Ballistic is pretty spot on with his discussion on Blazers and conventional 4" vanes.
All I can add there is another reason why the shorter, higher profile Blazers are so efficient. If you fit all vanes 1/2" from the nock and you take the centre of the surface area into consideration, it's easy to see that the Blazers' centre of surface area is located much further back on the shaft. Anyone's school mathematics will remind you that the leverage (or control) of the Blazers on the arrow will be greater due to them being located further back on the shaft. So even if the total surface area is slightly smaller than a 4" vane, it's effect on stabilizing (or leverage) is much higher than the 4" vane.

One other myth I've found that does not hold true (just my experience) is the noise that the arrow, or rather the fletcing at the back, makes. Even whistling broadheads I would group in this category. Arrows that shoosh or slightly whistle have killed lots of animals. It's not a very unnatural sound in nature. Birds go shoosh when they fly by. The animals don't even lift their heads. I've shot plenty animals with whistling Montec broadheads with no string jumping. And my vanes are max off set helical.
But don't make a sudden sharp sound like a fast bow does with a light arrow, and you'll cause any animal to get a moerse fright and duck or jump.

Lastly if you want good stabilization of an arrow, fit the vanes at the maximum off set that you're able to. Just always check that the vane foot is lying flat on the shaft. Normally about 2-3 degrees will suffice.
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Re: School me on Vanes , blazer etc.

Postby Antlion » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:32 am

Guardian wrote:Mr Ballistic is pretty spot on with his discussion on Blazers and conventional 4" vanes.
All I can add there is another reason why the shorter, higher profile Blazers are so efficient. If you fit all vanes 1/2" from the nock and you take the centre of the surface area into consideration, it's easy to see that the Blazers' centre of surface area is located much further back on the shaft. Anyone's school mathematics will remind you that the leverage (or control) of the Blazers on the arrow will be greater due to them being located further back on the shaft. So even if the total surface area is slightly smaller than a 4" vane, it's effect on stabilizing (or leverage) is much higher than the 4" vane.

One other myth I've found that does not hold true (just my experience) is the noise that the arrow, or rather the fletcing at the back, makes. Even whistling broadheads I would group in this category. Arrows that shoosh or slightly whistle have killed lots of animals. It's not a very unnatural sound in nature. Birds go shoosh when they fly by. The animals don't even lift their heads. I've shot plenty animals with whistling Montec broadheads with no string jumping. And my vanes are max off set helical.
But don't make a sudden sharp sound like a fast bow does with a light arrow, and you'll cause any animal to get a moerse fright and duck or jump.

Lastly if you want good stabilization of an arrow, fit the vanes at the maximum off set that you're able to. Just always check that the vane foot is lying flat on the shaft. Normally about 2-3 degrees will suffice.

I was told by a reputable shop in Pretoria East which often gets recommended , that the 4" vanes are "noisy" and will spook animals. Seems like all specialist stores are have this problem, certain myths keep getting repeated.
The gorilla glue works well, but it needs a very thin layer as the glue expands.
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