Bowfishing bad press

General Bowfishing talk....

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Postby ludwig » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:38 pm

Dimitri,

The problem is that the bowfishermen actually have no organization of their own. I have talked to a few members of ABO (African Bowhunters organization), and their opinion is that ABO should not put itself side by side with bowfishing, as a lot of the ABO members also have problems and issues with bowfishing itself. I would recon the same would go for SABA (South African Bowhunters Accociation). So that leaves bowfishing in a spot of bother. If none of the 2 big bowhunting organizations wants to be associated with bowfishing, then those guys are on their own. That is also the reason probably that no one have contacted Andre.

I cannot blame SABA or ABO for not welcoming the sport of bowfishing into their own, because in my eyes, bowfishing is not bowhunting. It's not the same sport, it's not the same diciplines. Why should it fall under the same organizations?
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Postby Anglershaven » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:39 pm

Dimitri wrote:
I did not debate the merits of the matter with Andre but asked him whether he would be willing to have a coffee with the relevant leadership of the bowhunting associations to discuss the matter. He said that he would be open to a coffee and a discussion. (Good news)

I'm new to bowhunting and to the forum and I'm not sure who the best people are to possibly represent bowhunting's interests in having a discussion with Andre? Should I e-mail the SABA and ABO chairmen directly or does anyone have any other suggested protocol that I could follow?


Five thumbs up to you Dimitri. Out of all the posts, comments and criticism made this is the only effort I can see that was actually made to try and resolve this issue.

I feel that you have done a great share and truly hope that others will follow by you example

With more people like you around we might actually be moving in the right direction
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Postby Dimitri » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:51 pm

Hi Ludwig

Perhaps the bowfisherman do want/need their own association. Perhaps not.

Either way my personal opinion is that the good, ethical, conservation-conscious, safety-conscious etc etc bowfishermen should be allowed to practise their chosen activity.

If they want/need their own association then I think that now would be a good time to form such an association.
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Postby ludwig » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:57 pm

Dimitri,

I agree with you. I think they definately need their own assocation if they want to survive and continue practising their sport. Problem is, their is a general lack of interest among most bowhunters for the sport of bowfishing, and the 10% who do care have done nothing about forming such an association. Now would be the best time to form such an assocation, seeing that the attacks on the sport is coming from an organized group of people. If there is no one to represent bowfishing, it's going to be an ugly one-sided afair.
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Postby Barry » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:10 pm

ludwig wrote:If there is no one to represent bowfishing, it's going to be an ugly one-sided afair.


NOT ONLY BUT also, of there are no representation of some sorts for the bowfishermen, there WILL be a general association made, by the IGNORANT GENERAL PUBLIC AND GOVERNMENT to BOWHUNTERS as well. This is the way people work
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Postby ludwig » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:14 pm

Yes Barry, that is what I'm afraid of as well. I have no problems or quarrels with bowfishing, but I do not want to be associated with it. Just because I'm not a bowfisherman. I'm a bowhunter. And as you stated correctly, the ignorance of the general public are already assuming bowhunting and bowfishing to be one and the same. :evil:
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Postby Sniper » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:22 pm

As I mentioned

Sniper wrote:What I would suggest is for serious bow fishermen to get together and start an BFSA association for bow fishing. This way we can protect bow hunting and address certain issues through the right channels.


Quote André www.outdoorpages.co.za/Fishing/Freshwat ... asp?ID=185 "Permits have been issued to hunters and a magazine has even seen the light..

Dimitri,
It is strange that André mentioned that he knew that there were a magazine out for bow hunters but claims that he did not know of any organisations. Maybe if he contacted Rean from bowhunter that he would have been better informed and or directed into a better direction.

Maybe Rean will be the right guy to contact and maybe the bow fishing guys can join the spear fishing community / asoc - if there is one because I think they are also outcasts operating in fish waters dayly.

Silver, Anglershaven, I think we can agree on one thing and that is that the heated arguments which flaired up was due to bow hunters tring to protect their sport. Would'nt you guys agree that it would be a great start for André to remove the www.outdoorpages.co.za/Fishing/Freshwat ... asp?ID=185 report which is damaging bow hunting, thereby I'm sure things would start moving in the right direction. After all André made us the bliksem in and now we fight each other with straws.

Bow fishing as I understand is not an official or regulated sport and are practiced by only a small group of bow hunters - maybe just for fun. I'm glad too see you guys can understand that bow hunting and bow fishing are two different activities.

I also want to be quoted:
So here it goes: My tottie is groter as julle sin................. :twisted:
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Postby Anglershaven » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:45 pm

Sniper wrote:Silver, Anglershaven, I think we can agree on one thing and that is that the heated arguments which flaired up was due to bow hunters tring to protect their sport. Would'nt you guys agree that it would be a great start for André to remove the www.outdoorpages.co.za/Fishing/Freshwat ... asp?ID=185 report which is damaging bow hunting, thereby I'm sure things would start moving in the right direction. After all André made us the bliksem in and now we fight each other with straws.



Sniper to be honest this was the first time I read the article as I did not want to be one sided. I personally think that Andre has the right to keep his article on the web. If I read it correctly he does not call for the banning of bow fishing as a whole but would rather see it regulated in a stricter way. If one looks at the photos of the crocs I can understand his outrage. I am no bow and arrow expert but those arrows lodged in those crocs does not look to be from a lad just shooting for fun, it looks like the arrows of a pro (By pro I refer not to Bowhunters but bowfishermen)

In this case I have to agree with Andre that until such a stage where bow fishing is regulated in a strict manner, it should be banned from public venues at least.

It is unfortunate that we come across all these bad seeds in our sports that is the cause for organizations like OP to step in and try and put a stop to it.

We as anglers also battle with our own bad seeds in the sport as there are many private venues that has closed their gates for anglers due to the stigma that fishermen are all dronkies causing trouble. We have had to learn to deal with it and start our own private venues, where one is selective with who is allowed and who not. Memberships must be paid and strict rules are put in place to stop bad seeds from f**ing it up for the rest of us.

I feel take Andre's report to be a driving force for bowfishermen to get a organization going, get venues organized and get a governing body so you to can start regulating your sport and keep the bad seeds from f*&ing it up for you
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Postby Allegiance » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:00 pm

Dimitri wrote:Should I e-mail the SABA and ABO chairmen directly or does anyone have any other suggested protocol that I could follow?


Demitri, yes, contact the SABA (J.C. Botha) or ABO (Pierre/Wynand) directly. If you dont have their contact details, please let me know, i will gladly supply them to you.

Last night i read through this thread from start to finished again. And what i realized was, Andre article started with one sentence "we will NEVER accept this new sport". The discussion progressed, and i personnaly went so far to point out, and to an extent playing devils advocate and attact the dedicated carp angler's methods, not from a bow hunters point of view at all. Personnaly i dont really care what and how they do, but tried to show that their are a lot of other points of view from other communities, that do not agree with the dedicated carp anglers methods and points of view (like feeding with ketties). This hit a very sensitive nerve weith (most) all the dedicated carp anglers. So intensely, that one by one they got upset for not agreeing with their point of view. I was called a few things, and I admit, i went to far proving the point that are reacting in exactly the same manner as bow hunters if their sport is under attact. Neither me or any other bow hunter sat in a hide and thought of a "nice" nick name ("veld kakkers") to call some anglers that differ from the convensional methods. The reality, it is a common used term under anglers.

The point im trying to make, is as there are points of view about feeding methods using ketties, there are also point of views about bow fishing. The only difference is, article was not publically release starting with "we will never accept the sport dedicated carp angling". Pitty that that same group of anglers did not have the same approaced when accepting another sport that is different from theirs.

Tomorrow, someone else may attact the sport "dedicated carp angling" and PLEASE note....I will argue this someone with the same intensity as on this forum, even though the "dedicated carp angling" community did not selet me to represent them.
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Postby Anglershaven » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:14 pm

Allegiance wrote:Last night i read through this thread from start to finished again. And what i realized was, Andre article started with one sentence "we will NEVER accept this new sport".


Allegiance could you please direct me in the right direction as to which article this was. I read through the thread again and could not find any article starting with those words, nor the article on OP.

Here is however what I could see on Andre's article
"Until reasonable control measures are put into place OutdoorPAGES will not support this so-called sport and here’s why:"
and
"We are calling on all parties to rethink the situation and ban bow fishing until reasonable measures are put into place. This sport cannot continue without being regulated. Until reasonable measures are put into place OutdoorPAGES WILL NOT SUPPORT BOW FISHING!"

So if there is another article of Andres on this matter could somebody please direct me in the right direction
Thank You
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Postby Dimitri » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:22 pm

'Tend to agree with Barry that the general public will not easily make a distinction between bowhunting and bowfishing. Their perception will be that it is one and the same thing.

If the above statement is true then perhaps that is all the more reason why the bowhunting associations need to get involved in this.

I will be e-mailing the representatives of SABA and ABO as suggested by Allegiance and the editor of Africa's Bowhunter as suggested by Sniper.

I sincerely hope that SOMETHING good can still come out of this.
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Postby Sniper » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:53 pm

I sent John Little from www.spearfishing.co.za to see if they would be willing to take bowfishing in under their flag.

I know that André Dicks also has his knife in for spear fishermen, but the fact is that if these guys sport gets acknowledged in a whole, things can be regulated and we do not sit with uneducated guys out there that feel they do not belong.

The spearfishing guys (also with an unique sport) get casted one side by fishermen but at least, they got rules and regulations whereby bowfishermen can feel they belong and be educated through a body.

This way bow hunters can focus on their culture and fight other more important issues affecting our culture.
Last edited by Sniper on Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Allegiance » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:22 pm

Thanks Sniper. Good input.

for everything happening in goverment, a separate commision of enquire is started.

If we want to start a controlling body for each and every sligthly different sport, like bowhunting and bowfishing bodies, where will we eventually stop? 60#, 70# and over the top # bow orginisations? Or a yellow rod papgooier and a blue rod spacialist carp angling body, causing all the organisation with their 10 members each to fight against each other over the exact same thing.
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Postby Sniper » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:22 pm

Anglershaven,

Yes André did state that he want the sport to be regulated but did it in the wrong way, wrong words and attacked so many different sports including the spear fishing community (who does not hunt in rivers and dams) in one report that we all are up in arms. The crocodile is a big shame and also falls under wild animals. Its not a fish and we got pulled in because one wise but crack decided to shoot it with no hunting sense and wrong equipment.
We need to start respecting different types of sports / cultures and choose our wording carefully to send out wrong images to the public out there. I will put my head on a block that this forum and its members will never publish photos, approach the media of birds and what not that gets tangled up in fishing line to ban rod fishing. Because we know that it is a problem with in our (me and you) fishing community. Bottom line is that it is critical for the fishing and the bow fishing guys to communicate.

I'm sure our Administrators of this forum will make a special place for bow fishing guys and with direct links to OutdoorPages and or Archershaven and visa versa to promote communication and education between the sites. But as I mentioned so many times is that OutdoorPages must clean up on their act as well and clear the air. This way we all can keep it at bay and at least try to educate new comers. My earlier dung beetle statement explains it.

The small bow fishing community (if it can be called a community because its so small) will grow and it is a golden opportunity to feed it with "reel" good food.

Will an body or organization work? I don’t know and there will still be idiots shooting what ever they want to kill, fish what ever they want to fish but IF I for one was going to take up a new sport, I will read up on it, gather as much info as possible and practice it within the guidelines set.
But if I was going to take up bow fishing tomorrow, all info I will gather is that spear fishing is not welcomed by fishermen (an age old feud that were lost by the fishermen), freshwater guys that want to claim fish as their own, I will gather that carp is an alien fish which are being protected by specimen carp fishermen, I will learn that some Blue Bull team players does bow fishing (maybe because they can't play rugby :lol: OOOH and I know I stepped on someone’s toes there and will be quoted, but had to throw a Cheetah curveball there), I will learn that there are veld kakkers, papgooiers, damduikers that really exist and has a name in the fishing community and I just want to learn how to fish with my bow the right way. Maybe the day after tomorrow I can learn more about specimen carp but I get all this no entry signs in my face which will not make me open to be thought because a president is set by carp fishermen that if you are seen with a bow in hand near fish water or even in the street you will be thrown by a Millie bomb.

So yes, I do not want to sit around a camp fire on a Buffalo hunting trip one day and be called a dolphin killer and neither any carp specimen fisherman want to sit next to his fish water and be called a rusted hook dolphin killer.
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Postby Guardian » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:22 pm

We are all fighting about a sport and how the one is more noble than the other.
Are we not forgetting that we are actually making use of our holy nature for our own pleasure ?
Lets all sit down and relax and think why we participate in these "sports" that we so dearly subscribe to.
If we didn't do it for the love of being in nature, we could have done it on the computer.
To accuse someone else is not nice. To respond to the accusations by accusing the other party is not any better.
I don't agree publishing an article about a division of a sport that you dislike on the web where anyone can view it. It's not on !
I think Andre's article against bowfishing is going to do a lot of harm, not only to bowfishing, but also to bowhunters in general.
It's been acknowledged by both sides that there are bad apples in every basket, but why go and condemn the basket so vehemently ??
What will O/Pages gain for themselves by destroying the image of bowfishing and possibly bowhunting ?
Only the greenies are going to gain by all this bad publications in the end.
Let's rather allow each other some space in our lovely nature and together fight to remove those bad apples from the baskets. :) :( :)
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